Request : create a Node.js community on Slack or Discord #17821
Comments
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Hi @Aarbel! To clarify, is this intended for community help purposes, or for things related for development within core? There is already the |
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@nodejs/community-committee |
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@maclover7 for community help purposes (but it could also be a more comfy environment for core development chats) Yes i know #node-dev IRC channel, but it's quite messy and it doesn't bring the value of a full community team on Discord or Slack ;) Goal : make Nodejs even more sexy (Docker has a great Slack / Discord public community team, React / react Native too, Ruby too, etc...) |
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For a bit of historic background, core discussion was moved out of #node.js around 2011 when that channel got too big. The bigger the channel, the harder it is to have focused discussion. |
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These kind of tools (Slack, Discord) also help to reduce the amount of non relevant issues posted on github. If needed i could join the @nodejs/community-committee to create them and make them active. |
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there's like 10 other threads on this buried somewhere maybe eventually I'll get to doing a writeup on why we should move to Discord (haha, no I won't actually get to it) |
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This is the relatively-recent discussion about this: nodejs/community-committee#11 |
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We already don't moderate IRC particularly well. The problem with endorsing another space like Slack or Discord is that we'd have to make sure it abides to our community standards. We'd need to be able to enforce that the channel is harassment free and doesn't devolve into toxicity.
For starters - let's not use sexualized language to describe the project 😅 You might be surprised but there are plenty of people who'd really prefer it if we didn't and we respect that. I think this is something for @nodejs/community-committee to decide on first thing (if we want it) and then we should discuss how we can keep it positive and useful. |
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i don't think i've ever seen a slack that has devolved into toxicity, but i think every single discord has probably been there at some point. slack does a fantastic job of making you feel like you're an actual member of whatever thing you've joined because you sign up to the slack server not the slack service. discord is my personal favorite but your interface into discord is the service, not the individual server, which usually leads to spammers and the need for a much larger moderation team, specially when you have strongly defined community standards like node. All in all i think what whatever is selected needs:
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I have. I've seen slacks where abuse was rampant and the environment was plenty toxic. I'm not saying ours will be toxic (it won't) but the platform doesn't make it any harder IMO. (As a side note, I'm +1 on this whole chat thing in general) |
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Hey, on this topic i have a suggestion use zulip.
When you have a stream you can have topic which then go away if they are inactive To see demo https://chat.zulip.org its a developer chat for https://github.com/zulip/zulip If you have any question feel free to ask here or at https://chat.zulip.org/#narrow/stream/general |
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@cPhost are you affiliate with zulip in any way? |
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@benjamingr no i am not but i am working on tasks because of Google Code-In and so i know all of the team. |
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So what is the next step for the nodejs help community ? :) |
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edit: you have to create an account with them anyway 😢 |
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@devsnek i don't think you need to have account with zulip. you just click login with github, and just type in your name. |
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@cPhost according to a zulip dev there's a bug surrounding the account being created on the backend which makes you need to create a new account before logging in with github |
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Never did i know or experience that even though i have two accounts, chances are its already fixed :) |
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@nodejs/community-committee Check that : it's like Slack but free https://about.mattermost.com/ |
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There's also RocketChat/Rocket.Chat, which is like Slack but Open Source and developed with Meteor. There are options for self-host server or Saas :) |
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Zulip full time contributor here. We love nodejs and use it for writing our frontend tests. I am here to try to convince you folks to give Zulip a shot. The main advantage Zulip has over Slack and Slack clones like Mattermost, RocketChat etc is it's fully threaded nature. Each conversation in Zulip is a thread and has a topic. This allows you to take part in more than one conversation at the same time. Topics also makes it easier to focus on conversations that you care about and ignore the ones you don't. Each topic has a unique url. So you can easily link to conversations in Zulip like this. Since each conversation has a topic it is quite easy to catch up on Zulip if you were away for some time. You don't have to scroll through hundreds or thousands of messages. All you need is to go through the topics that interest you. You can even reply back to a conversation that happened months before due to this structure. We are 100% open source. Zulip would not have been possible without open source projects like Django, nodejs, tornado etc. We provide Zulip premium for free to open source projects. You can also host Zulip in your own server if you folks are more interested in that. Please take a look at https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/ :) If you folks have any more questions feel free to ask here or at chat.zulip.org. I have started a thread https://chat.zulip.org/#narrow/stream/user.20community/topic/nodejs. BtW @devsnek the GitHub bug got fixed in zulip/zulip#7689 Updated to fix the issue link. |
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@hackerkid i think you mean zulip/zulip#7689 😄 |
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right now we have http://www.nodeslackers.com/, there's still some ongoing debate on other platforms |
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(trying to stay neutral here) discord over the last bit of time made a push for open source: |
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There is now an official Discord for Node.js: https://discord.gg/XcbgTvJ Will https://nodejs.org/en/get-involved/ be updated at some point? EDIT: it is not official yet but that may change in the future. |
Not official. It may become official at some point, but it is an experiment for now. |
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I have been a member of the unofficial Discord server for over a week but discovered today I have been banned, and I do not know why. Is there an avenue to reach out to for matters such as this, and/or will there be if it becomes official? |
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Hey Michael, Currently Node.js doesn't monitor or moderate the Node.js Discord and we cannot guarantee it is indeed a safe space or that it enforces our Code of Conduct. We would have happily given you an answer regarding the avenue if it was official or supported - at the moment I'd recommend reaching out to whomever runs the Discord. |
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@MichaelTheriot Hey there, I'm one of the admins of the Discord. You were banned because I received two complaints about behavior involving you in the Discord, and while investigating your comment history within the Discord you were specifically acting in ways that didn't adhere to the If you'd like to reach out to myself via Discord to discuss further, feel free to ping me at |
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I am disappointed users can be suddenly removed without warning for such a
vague and subjective reason. I would hope a future official channel would
have a moderation policy that is designed with open communication in mind
rather than silently removing people. I also hope there will be an avenue
to appeal an infraction you (strongly) disagree with that is fairer than
simply talking to the same person who issued the infraction, and also apply
the code of conduct equally to its own members. Frankly, a user should never be totally unaware of why they were abruptly removed regardless of whatever offense someone perceives they committed.
My two cents to this whole
discussion for what it is worth.
…On Thursday, May 3, 2018, Tierney Cyren ***@***.***> wrote:
@MichaelTheriot <https://github.com/MichaelTheriot> Hey there, I'm one of
the admins of the Discord.
You were banned because I received two complaints about behavior involving
you in the Discord, and while investigating your comment history within the
Discord you were specifically acting in ways that didn't adhere to the Other
conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a
professional setting in the Node.js Code of Conduct (which the Discord
server intends to follow, and is stated in the #rules channel).
If you'd like to reach out to myself via Discord to discuss further, feel
free to ping me at bnb#0538.
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@MichaelTheriot I think there might be a communication gap in how we see things here. It appears to me like you're describing an adversarial situation. Node.js moderation team members (in this case @bnb) in general don't remove people in order to punish them. There is no pretence of trying to educate or change people nor do we think that it's in our place to judge you or others. Removing people is something that's done when a user is being (subjectively) disruptive and other users complain. Not only is reaching out to Node.js (@bnb in this case) acceptable - it is desirable so we can reach a situation where you can participate and there is mutual respect amongst participants. There is no trial, it's a discussion whose goal is to reach a mutually beneficial conclusion. It is my sincerest hopes that you discuss what happened with @bnb and together you'll reach an outcome you're satisfied with. Should you be unhappy with the outcome - you're welcome to send a report the issue to
I am sincerely sorry you are disappointed with our communication process (detailed here) - I'd like to see how we improve it. When/if we make Discord an official Node.js channel and commit towards a friendly and collaborative space we should revisit how user removal is communicated to users. |
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Thanks for the insight. For necessary context, I disagreed with an opinion
a member of the organization wrote and after I voiced this the member
aggressively attacked me, calling me a "troll" and even rating my
"trolling". I stated I found this behavior incredibly rude and intolerant
and did not receive feedback from any staff presently conversing at the
time. The next morning I was shocked to discover I had been removed. I
reached out to some members of the organization afterward to ask what I
could do but did not receive any assistance whatsoever (I am including this
for context, not to target anybody), and I felt this thread was the only
way I could even locate someone who could help. This might explain why what
I describe appears like an "adversarial" situation unwelcome to
participants that are not in the in-group. Also, I strongly believe
removing people without even conversing with them does not foster mutual
respect but instead leads them to feeling they are unwelcome and their
issue is unimportant to the team.
While I appreciate the time you have given to educate me about this I do
not think I will pursue further here. This experience has left me feeling
targeted by several members of the team when I am just a Node.js
enthusiast, and I do not think an official seal of approval would ever
change that. The decision to remove me and sanction behavior I consider
provocative and intolerant is honestly challenging the enthusiasm I held
for Node.js as a whole.
I hope my feedback here is helpful in some form. Since I don't want to
derail this issue I will not be replying here anymore, but feel free to
reach out if desired.
…On Saturday, May 5, 2018, Benjamin Gruenbaum ***@***.***> wrote:
@MichaelTheriot <https://github.com/MichaelTheriot> I think there might
be a communication gap in how we see things here. It appears to me like
you're describing an adversarial situation.
Node.js moderation team members (in this case @bnb
<https://github.com/bnb>) in general don't remove people in order to
*punish* them. There is no pretence of trying to educate or change people
nor do we think that it's in our place to judge you or others. Removing
people is something that's done when a user is being (subjectively)
disruptive and other users complain.
Not only is reaching out to Node.js ***@***.*** <https://github.com/bnb> in
this case) acceptable - it is *desirable* so we can reach a situation
where you can participate and there is mutual respect amongst
participants.There is no *trial*, it's a *discussion* whose goal is to
reach a mutually beneficial conclusion.
It is my sincerest hopes that you discuss what happened with @bnb
<https://github.com/bnb> and together you'll reach an outcome you're
satisfied with. Should you be unhappy with the outcome - you're welcome to
send a report the issue to ***@***.*** Please note though that per
our moderation policy:
- The Node.js Discord channel is not an official supported space and
we do not actively officially moderate it. So it is unlikely that will help.
- Tierney, other than showing himself to be very level headed when
discussing moderation issues over the past half a year(?) volunteering as a
moderator is a member of said group
<https://github.com/nodejs/admin/blob/master/Moderation-Policy.md#current-members-of-moderation-team>
who gets the final say in such issues.
I am sincerely sorry you are disappointed with our communication process
(detailed here
<https://github.com/nodejs/admin/blob/master/Moderation-Policy.md>) - I'd
like to see how we improve it. When/if we make Discord an official Node.js
channel and commit towards a friendly and collaborative space we should
revisit how user removal is communicated to users.
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<#17821 (comment)>, or mute
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@dbkaplun Interesting, but empty. Just for people interested, Reactiflux opened a Discord for node (Nodeiflux): https://discord.gg/YrrhfWs or https://discordapp.com/invite/YrrhfWs . Which has already twice more people connected, and definitely not enough! @benjamingr About moderation, React on their official Discord have more than 2000 people connected at the same time and it is a very friendly environment. It requires very little moderation and I bet a lot of people would want to involve to get a sane environment. Note Vue official chat is also on Discord and has over 1000 people connected at the same time, no problem either. Moderators do not have to be core devs team. |
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it seems like this issue's original intent has been fulfilled. Slack: http://www.nodeslackers.com/ |
Hi Node.js team !
Could you create a public Slack or Discord team ? 🙌
(http://nodeslackers.io/ is not official & down ++ #node.js and #node-dev IRC is so cancerously 2010 ... )
Could be absolutely awesome for the community ! 🎉
Thanks a lot !
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