Use "agent" instead of "slave"

[jamiebuilds]

This has not been tested at all, but please update this project to stop using "master/slave"

[jamiebuilds]

Is this a joke?

No

Do you really think that using the word "slave" as part of the name for a Kubernetes service correctly is an actual issue that affects this project or society in any way?

Yes

[slay]

The terms "slave" and "master" are general terms for one entity that controls another entity. The software in question is not promoting racial slurs, so there shouldn't be any need to change the terminology. I fail to see how changing the words will create a "more inclusive community". Who would actively stop using a tool because it uses those words?

[jamiebuilds]

The terms "slave" and "master" are general terms for one entity that controls another entity.

There are many other terms for this:

• Master/Controller/Manager/etc
• Worker/Agent/Node/Runner/etc

There are always more appropriate terms for the case at hand.

The software in question is not promoting racial slurs

"Master" and "Slave" is a completely unambiguous reference to the enslavement of people.

I fail to see how changing the words will create a "more inclusive community"

Maybe cause they don't affect you.

Who would actively stop using a tool because it uses those words?

Many don't have a choice in the matter. That doesn't mean it doesn't make them feel shitty.

It also creates very difficult situations in workplaces when people say things like "The master killed the slave"

[hybrisCole]

I thought that with the ayojs fiasco this would stop, this is the stupidest shit I'll see today for sure

[jamiebuilds]

Try some empathy

[wvcal]

Agree completely with @jamiebuilds. Slave, and master is honestly insulting to alot of users out there. I find it sickening how most programming terminology is incredibly oppressive, and suggestive. Terms such as kill, mount, touch, finger, and even fsck!!!

If we want to encourage more people to develop open source, we need to be more a inclusive community, and stop with this needless toxic terminology.

Perhaps we could introduce a new software license that would prevent this terminology from being used throughout the code base, and issues? We could call it the Inclusive Tolerant Language License, or ITTL for short.

[m-ret]

We use these words depending on context. In the context of my job, in my case. And I’ve never mentioned those words on a context where I’m offending someone. So all good from my end. You guys proposing this kind of shit for “inclusive” terms are sick.

[nstadigs]

This can't possibly be as important to you as to the people it's offending? So why not just make the change? It might even make you look good in the process.

[BadAtIrcBots]

Another day another shitty pull request from jamiebuilds.

[ianlewis]

@trironkk @huyhg Jenkins seems to have adopted Master/Agent nomenclature for distributed builds. Can we merge this ASAP?

https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Distributed+builds

[aoyawale]

please merge as soon as the test passes. We need to change this in the IT industry. Imagine using slave in other languages. I definitely wouldn't like using slaves in Spanish and would give you a weird/annoyed look if you did.

[richburroughs]

Many software projects have done a similar renaming and it’s absolutely more inclusive. Some of the folks in this thread are really missing the point. If there are other options that are less likely to offend people, why not use them? There’s no reason not to, besides people wanting to push back against things they see as “PC.”

I’m not sure what to say to the folks who aren’t able to understand that a term that doesn’t offend them might offend someone else. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of someone who has ancestors that were actual slaves, for example, and consider if you might find having to hear that term a lot at work problematic.

[13steinj]

If there are other options that are less likely to offend people, why not use them?

I'm offended by this question. Please rephrase it with more inclusive language.

If this nonsense is offensive to someone, then they don't deserve to contribute.

Best case scenario-- these phrases are changed in every project in the industry.

Then at least make sure it works rather than blindly find/replacing.

[shamilovtim]

@richburroughs if we go back far enough all of our ancestors were slaves. that's especially true for many of us from eastern europe, where our ancestors were serfs a mere 100 something years ago. it's not offensive.

[aoyawale]

@rfree-d then why other projects have changed naming and don't use slave/master vocabulary. Are you so offended by a change in wording ? or is it because you are afraid of change? this nonsense needs to change in the IT industry.

[ZeeCoder]

Use worker instead at least if you want to change it at all cost.
Easier to understand than "agent" for people who speaks English as their second language.

That's actually a pro for "master/slave" as well:
crystal clear what the relationship is for non native speakers as well.

[nonviolently]

I’m neither in favor of nor against this pull request…just would like to put in two cents:

ambiguity and context

"Master" and "Slave" is a completely unambiguous reference to the enslavement of people.

I found this to be inaccurate. According to the Oxford dictionary, the noun slave can mean:

1. a person who is the legal property of another person
2. a person who works very hard without proper remuneration
3. a person who is controlled by something
4. a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another
5. an ant captured in its pupal state by an ant of another species, for which it becomes a worker

the noun master may refer to:

1. a man who has people working for him
2. a person who has dominance or control
3. the owner of a domesticated animal
4. a machine or device directly controlling another
5. a man in charge of an organization
6. a male schoolteacher
7. the head of school
8. the captain of a merchant ship
9. a skilled practitioner
10. a great artist (…the list goes on)

the verb kill can mean:

1. to cause death
2. to put an end
3. to stop a computer process
4. to switch off
5. to delete
6. to make the ball stop
7. to hit the tennis ball too hard
8. to neutralize an effect
9. to entirely consume a drink
10. to overwhelm someone with emotion (…the list goes on)

To correctly understand the sentence "The master killed the slave", one should also examine its context, not just the words. In this case, taking context into account, it most likely means "The master (meaning no. 4) killed (meaning no. 3) the slave (meaning no. 4)". Recipients who interpret it this way are less likely to get offended as the resolved meaning behind each word is not offensive.

considerateness and diversity

Although the sentence, when interpreted according in context, may not have offensive intent, people are diverse.

For some people, hearing/reading certain words can cause negative emotional reaction and cause the hearer/reader to feel offended, regardless of the context to which they’re put in. While one may say it could constitute a 'contextomy' fallacy, calling people 'oversensitive' or 'sick' will very unlikely improve the situation, but more likely call for even more defensiveness. After all people come from different backgrounds and cultures.

robustness and tradeoffs

The robustness principle says:

Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others.

I found this to be the best strategy: best to not get offended easily, at the same time try not to offend others (that’s why I say I am neither in favor of nor against this pull request.)

As with all decisions, there are tradeoffs: Using more inclusive words means they’ll be less likely misinterpreted as offensive, and the maintainers will avoid having to deal with polarizing issues like this altogether, so time spent dealing with these issues could be spent on other things. (This could lead to a more productive and inclusive community.) However this also means the maintainers must put in effort to be extra careful with word choice as they’ll have to consider people who may interpret words out-of-context and get offended. (This may lead to reduced expressivity, which could be problematic when the project is considered a means of self-expression.)

So… the maintainers should determine the tradeoffs and make a decision based on what would best benefit the project

[oicorn]

The OSS community needs to start considering adding a section to CoCs: how to handle people who engage in a bad faith political drive-by on repos, foisting their own personal politics on users and maintainers. Nothing about what Jaime is trying to do here is coming from a good place. Even if his actions are intended to enact positive change, he isn't doing it in a positive manner. This did not come organically from the maintainers of the project.

This has nothing to do with OSS. This is about power, control and imposing one's willpower on others. Toward that end, we need to outline how to handle people doing this stuff. I'm guessing it's going to start happening a lot more often.

[aoyawale]

@oicorn most community projects out there avoid this type of conversation because they don't use the words in this PR. This is nothing about political/personal or any of the nonsense you mentioned. Its something that the IT/CS/FOSS community needs to change.

This has nothing to do with OSS. This is about power, control and imposing one's willpower on others. Toward that end, we need to outline how to handle people doing this stuff. I'm guessing it's going to start happening a lot more often.

easy to say when you refer other things as slaves. This is not the first time this conversation has come up and won't be the last. If you think this is the beginning then I don't know where you have been. The maintainers can either accept or deny.

[bibryam]

while we are on a racial/sexist topic, let's fix also:
blacklist
whitelist
kill
git blame
svn trunk
man in the middle attack
white-hat/black-hat hacker
man page
daemon
blackbox/whitebox testing
penetration testing
minion
...

[aoyawale]

@bibryam I'm up for changing those too.

[ndbucksmith]

For SPI comms lines are are normally labeled MISO and MOSI (master in slave out and master out slave in.) Under this boneheaded and silly proposal they would now be AIAO and AOAI, i.e. meaningless babble. Social justice 'science' is mental sink hole driving humanity to single digits IQs

[hugelgupf]

@jamiebuilds please refer to #221.

[aladar42]

I'm gonna regret ever commenting on this, but eh.

You can find negative connotations of a word for anything. For example, taking this commit:
-An agent of ISIS. I'm sure everyone here agrees that the oppression and killings done by the hands of ISIS and other terrorist organisations are a very serious and tragic thing.
-A chemical agent. Used in biochemical attacks. Again, going back to several tragic events in the past that I'm sure I don't have to mention.
-An agent of a state agency. This is ironic, because of the previous ICE debate.

I'm sure I could go on and on, and find more negative connotations to the word (porn industry in certain countreis comes to mind). The change is ultimately up to the maintainers, but people who choose to associate terms with negative connotations will be able to do so even after the pull.

[mboltonn]

This is a great initiative. Stellar work folks!

However, I've noticed that ever since mozilla spent all that money to remove "slave" from buildbot folks have always complained that this is just constant thought policing by communist leftist SJWs and that nobody is actually offended by the term "slave".

Maybe there's a better way.

I propose that we can bypass this entire problem by renaming all "master/slave" to the more inclusive "top/bottom"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top%2C_bottom_and_versatile

[gaurav-nelson]

We should follow the standards. Google Developer Documentation Style Guide recommends not to use this.

[richburroughs]

Thank you Google for fixing this via #221.

[aoyawale]

@rfree-d you came here and responded sooo.... to me is not a waste of time but, according to your response, you are wasting your own time?

[AlexanderZagaynov]

nobody is actually offended by the term "slave"

Actually it is. It's the name of a huge ethnic group, living in Eastern Europe.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slave#Etymology

[hvent90]

Humbly addressed to the following:
@hybrisCole, @maketroli, @BadAtIrcBots, @shamilovtim, @bibryam, @ndbucksmith, and @aladar42.

In the future when you are given another opportunity to respond to someone claiming offense or lack of inclusivity, please take a moment to consider their discomfort is real, even if you can't feel it.

While your personal experiences do not lend you the ability to relate with their discomfort, please remember that we share this community with others and accomplishing a shared goal requires everyone on the team feeling included.

@wvcal, @gmmorris, @nbostrom, @jlozadad, @richburroughs, @nonviolently, @AlexanderZagaynov, thank you all for making yourselves emotionally available to contribute here.

[mayorovp]

@AlexanderZagaynov please speak for youself but not for all ethnic group. I do not feel offended by this word.

[xingrz]

There are many other terms for this:

• Master/Controller/Manager/etc
• Worker/Agent/Node/Runner/etc

There are always more appropriate terms for the case at hand.

It also creates very difficult situations in workplaces when people say things like "The master killed the slave"

The manager killed the worker.

[thatbingoguy]

fgs you people

if you’re so offended by “slave” and “master” might as well throw away your pc since half of the BIOSes use the terms ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[richburroughs]

@thatbingoguy Too late, they merged the change.

[warmchang]

The redis and python communities have the same view. But in my opinion, these self-righteous so-called political correctness are all shit and seriously affect the harmony of the community.

[ghost]

Where did we go wrong in this world

[mindlessnessless]

This is what I see

They speak of freedom and condem the free. They tell me what my creations should be. They do not see. They certianly do not see me.

A story of hate they sell. Not even their story to tell. They do not see. They certianly do not see me.

They speak for the oppressed by pressing oppression. The voice of the real oppressed they lessen. They do not see. They certianly do not see me.

Only now do they want their part. Into that which I have poured my heart. They do not see. They certianly do not see me.

Do not pay attension to the village fool. Do not give them power should be the rule. They do not see. They certianly do not see me.

Respect others and their voice. No need to agree but respect their choice. I choose not to see. They are certianly not on the side of the free.

[mindlessnessless]

And for extra fun...

An agent of a new kind of master. They push a new branch of disaster. Requests that will pull us down. We might as well rename git to cloneClown.

[warmchang]

Rename git to cloneClown?

Oh no, don't do this please. Otherwise the god (Linus Torvalds) will fire to everyone, can not imagine... 😄

[mindlessnessless]

Words are only words. We give them meaning and our actions speak loader.

Acting on this merge request speaks very loud words for me at least. Words that say Linus, the godly :), had negitive intensions here and that this community has allowed him to get away with until now. This is simply not true.

Quite frankly this action belittles an amazing project started by a very tallented man who has only ever given his work freely to the whole world for the benifit of all.

This merge request should of been ignored. Please do not entertain notions of crulty where none exist. Eyes open.

Fun fact: "git" is a commonly used term to insult someone in English and Irish clutures.

[ArjixWasTaken]

nobody is actually offended by the term "slave"

Actually it is. It's the name of a huge ethnic group, living in Eastern Europe. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slave#Etymology

I am Greek, Σκλάβος and Σλάβος are clearly different words.
And nobody here thinks they have the same or even a similar meaning.

Often enough, Slavs are viewed as cool people, not as slaves.
Words don't define who we are, if you let words control you, then you are the problem my friend, not we.

What's next? change daemon to background worker because it promotes demons?

(Came from https://github.com/github-drama/github-drama)

[stretch07]

What's next? change daemon to background worker because it promotes demons?
lmfao 🤣