-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 4
New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
Unique Taxpayer Reference #126
Comments
Note that in LISA it's possible the users may have a 13 digit UTR number. If that's the case we ask that they only provide the last 10 digits. |
@jennifer-hodgson This is from AWRS. |
This from Soft Drinks Industry Levy |
This from Lifetime ISA |
This from Register a company |
From pay online. |
Issues we have asking for a UTR in the PODS service: (1) the pattern says we should allow users to enter 10 or 13 numbers, with or without spaces and a k, and then strip the unnecessary characters. Our service can only send 10 digits to ETMP, so would have to strip extra characters anyway. The problem then is that when the UTR is played back to the user (e.g. when they return to the service at a later date) we can only retrieve the 10-digit UTR from ETMP and play it back to the user. Their first reaction is likely to be "hold on, that's not right - the number I entered was 13 digits / had a space / had a k" etc etc. (2) the hint text states "This is 10 numbers, for example 1234567890". We feel this can be as confusing as it is helpful: sometimes a paper UTR is in the format xxx xxxxx xxxxx, sometimes xxxxxxxxxx, sometimes xxxxx xxxxx (and there's probably more combinations than that!). We're allowing a user to enter k's and spaces and more numbers than they should, as we know how different the UTR can be presented to them, but then showing the single format example could make them unsure that they have the right number to enter in the first place. On PODS we ask for a UTR over two pages - (a) do you have a UTR? (as not every user will have one), and if yes (b) what is your UTR? We have prototyped the content for this as follows (based primarily on design and UR that AMLS have already successfully done): (a) Does [USER] have a Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR)? with supporting text of "This is a 10-digit or 13-digit number. You can find it on tax returns and other documents from HMRC. It might be called ‘reference’, ‘UTR’ or ‘official use’." As mentioned this support text has been successfully tested by AMLS (minus the letter 'k' portion which they did not include). We will likewise test this and feed back on outcomes. |
@jonathaninch I just came here with a question related your point (1) that I originally posted in slack but got no response: Guidance at https://design.tax.service.gov.uk/hmrc-design-patterns/unique-taxpayer-reference/ says "Remove spaces, characters and extra numbers before validating." I'm confident about making a case within our team for removing spaces and punctuation. I'm less confident about making the case for removing extra digits. Can anybody give me the reason for removing extra digits so I can make the case to colleagues? |
The pattern's hint text link content includes "UTR number" but the HMRC style guide says: "Not ‘Unique Taxpayer Reference number’ or ‘Unique Taxpayer Reference Number’". Should the word 'number' be removed from the pattern? |
Thanks @JillRichardsonPratt this pattern is currently under review for other amendments, so we'll look at this as part of the update |
Thanks for the feedback @Colin172A we've updated the pattern |
Hi again. We noticed that the Welsh translation for "You can find a lost UTR" was different in our service to the translation on the pattern. I checked this with the Welsh translation team. They've confirmed the correct translation is: |
Hi, One of the principles is to add spacing around numbers to make them easier to read. This is done for the National Insurance number pattern. Could the same be applied to the example UTR in the hint text? |
Hi @Colin172A I've updated the welsh. Regarding how we show reference numbers, I'll raise this with our content designer when they start later this month (it's been a vacant position for some time). It would mean changes across several patterns and potentially style guide entries. |
The guidance says 'Remove spaces, characters and extra numbers before validating.' I think this has already been asked above, but if someone enters too many numbers, how do you know which ones to remove? At the moment we've just been stripping out anything which can not be a valid character. If there are too many digits we display an error message to let the user know. |
The existing pattern assumes that someone would only be able to find their UTR in an offline format like a letter. Users are likely to be able to access online systems too and may already be signed into GG and able to access their PTA or have the HMRC app. Can the pattern be updated to include signposting (with links) to PTA and the HMRC app, as per the GOV.UK guidance? Also is there any way people could be signposted to a place where they can get a copy of their UTR if they have lost it, as per the guidance? Also, as a UTR can be between 10 and 13 characters, advising a user that it's 10 numbers is likely to confuse users who have a 13 character ref on a document or letter. Could the hint text be updated to accommodate this? |
Another option could be to change the wording of the link from "You can find a lost UTR" to "Find your UTR". This matches the heading on the page that the link takes you to. It also removes the assumption that the UTR is 'lost' and the link is only for users who have 'lost' it. It might not be lost, the user might just need to find out which online services allow them to view the UTR, which is what the "Find your UTR" page primarily provides. Changing it to "Find your UTR" accommodates both types of user- those who lost the UTR and those who just need help to look it up online. |
@Colin172A I agree that changing the text to 'find your UTR' would be clearer. My concern is that it seems from the screenshots of pages for the 'Enter a UTR page' that I've seen that often that first line of the text from the pattern isn't included when screens are developed so often the only guidance people have is the hint text telling them to look at a letter etc. Having hint text that specifically says you can find your UTR in the HMRC app or your personal tax account will help people self serve. (Also telling people that UTRs can be 10 to 13 characters rather than just 10 numbers. I'm suggesting something like this mock up below. It would mean the link in the pattern could be removed, which would keep people on the page. An option which groups the instructions on where to find the UTR together. |
@jeanesims the mockup looks good. Better to keep users on the screen than send them to another page to read through. For Corporation Tax is there an online service they can use to look it up? I am not sure if they can get it from the HMRC app or is the only way to get it from paper documents? I guess the text would still need a link for users who have lost/cannot find their UTR so they can get guidance about having it sent out in the post? |
@Colin172A |
Thanks for these suggestions, we're taking them into account as we prepare our revised pattern. We would also like to address Rachel's initial concern around validation, removing characters etc. Would you know of anyone we could reach out to to discuss how validation is handled? I'd particularly like to find out if the 'k' character in some UTR's is actually needed. |
Here's a suggestion for CTUTR The link above the green button would go here for CT https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/ask-for-copy-of-your-corporation-tax-utr?_ga=2.197867372.2131649915.1692788962-79046079.1665746662 |
@JackHMRC - @adamliptrot-oc would be a good person to speak to about this |
Thanks Jean, I'll update as we progress :) |
Also, we've recently noticed that a lot of people include the letters 'UTR' at the start when entering their Unique Taxpayer Reference. Maybe we should strip these letters out before validation and accept the reference if it's otherwise formatted correctly? To save the user seeing an error message. |
People use different GG user IDs to sign into services and this means that each service has to develop pathways for data, like a UTR, to be pulled in. If a service wants to pull in a UTR for example this has to be developed so isn't automatic. So someone might sign into GG and a service to report 'magicians tax' using a GG User ID that is different to the one they use for Self Assessment and because the magicians tax service hasn't built a way for a UTR to be pulled into that service, the user will still need to enter it even though they are signed into GG. |
One of the easiest ways to find your UTR is using the HMRC app. A lot of people find using the app easier than going to PTA. It would help users if the app were mentioned here along side PTA in the pattern. Is there any way it could be added to the SAUTR version? |
The full description includes a link, which shouldn't be included in hint text. The optimal accessibility approach for these UTR examples is beyond my knowledge, but the latest version was created with the help of some of our accessibility experts. |
@richardhattonUX @Jon-Rowe-HMRC I think the difficulty is in trying to achieve an outcome by staying as close to out-of-the-box implementation of components as possible.
Which would expose the format information whilst not including the link. However I think there is currently an issue with the pattern communication as visually it does look like the h1 is meant to be the label and the two paragraphs the hint. It is only when examining the code (which I expect not everyone does if it looks simple) that you realise it is not marked up in that way. The "Place the question on its own page. " instruction is not obvious enough considering this is a departure from the norm. |
@Jon-Rowe-HMRC I think @adamliptrot-oc has articulated the issue I had better than I did. |
Thanks @adamliptrot-oc and @richardhattonUX. The design resources team is working on an iteration of the examples and guidance. |
Hi @adamliptrot-oc & @richardhattonUX, We've been looking into this on the design resources team and have another suggestion of using the standard GOV.UK complex question pattern. The content isn't final but as an example:
There are some benefits to this over the other patterns:
The downsides I can think of are:
I think the pros of this approach outweigh the cons. |
Hi @timsb, I think that the complex question approach is better (I am not a fan of hiding labels). Looking at the copy on the UTR pattern, there is formatting content that could be added as hint text and the remaining as the into text, e.g.
Just an idea to accommodate one of the downsides. |
Hi all, I was wondering why we don't have a pattern for Partnership UTR? A need has been called out in our service to ask for Partnership UTR. This is to ensure if a user is part of/reporting on behalf of a partnership they enter the UTR of the partnership itself, and not the SA UTR of one of the partners. This wording appears if they selected "Partnership" or "Limited partnership or limited liability partnership" to "What type of business are you?" in the previous screen. Any thoughts on this wording? And is it worth creating a Partnership UTR pattern? |
Thanks @kerry-a-H we've added a partnership example: https://design.tax.service.gov.uk/hmrc-design-patterns/unique-taxpayer-reference/ |
10 digit number used in LISA and other services. We need to standardise this.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: